Focardi and Rossi

8 04 2011

Although I’m skeptical, this story keeps coming.

Italian researchers Focardi and Rossi claim to have crossed break-even fusion with a LENR (low energy nuclear reactions)(not cold fusion) heat source.

Now Swedish researchers have confirmed.. yes fusion is happening here. Check it out:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/swedish-researchers-confirm-rossi-and.html

Man, holy shit.

If this is real it’s more exciting than the Bussard Reactor. Let’s be honest.

I would love to try and build one. Totally simple.

Although the details of the experiment are starting to emerge, the secret sauce has not been revealed.

What if we could re-discover that secret and open-source it?

Bet we could!

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14 responses

10 04 2011
Gabor Laszlo

I red about this before (and subsequently red up on LENR), it’s very interesting stuff, and sounds very promising. That reactor looks small enough to be fitted into a car :D

11 04 2011
Don Cox

I’m very skeptical, but it looks as though it would be cheap to try it out.

Are there any proper technical papers anywhere?

11 04 2011
yonemoto

you know what would be nice? A control experiment.

Why don’t they do the experiment with deuterium gas instead of hydrogen. If it’s a nuclear process, it shouldn’t do the same thing (or at least the energy output should be wildly different).

12 04 2011
Tyler

I’ve been looking into this over the last several days. I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the inventor claimed that deuterium wouldn’t work. For some slightly technical papers/conjectures, see http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/

The thing that bothers me is that the setup seems so simple. Wouldn’t some chemist have accidently stumbled upon it playing around in the last couple hundred years? Surely someone has pressurized nickel and hydrogen in the same chamber. Oh, wait. They have. It’s called a nickel-hydrogen battery. Completely chemical. The “mysterious ingredent” could be the electrolyte. It would be awfully nice if he just said what the ingredient was, allowing other people to actually confirm it, advertise it, and improve on it.

12 04 2011
John Meacham

The guy is pretty much doing everything he can to appear to be a con man, and has a pretty sketchy past.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg42228.html

And not releasing enough details to reproduce the setup is just a red flag. I mean a really big one. The “patent” issue is a non-issue, any lawyer can tell him that, just file a provisional patent that needs no details to establish precedence, then it won’t matter who replicates it. It can be done in an afternoon. getting the actual patent takes more time, but the provisional one establishes precedent.

Of course, once the real patent is filed it will eventually become public, if the provisional patent is accepted and he _still_ doesn’t produce details, then he is probably just stalling and collecting investors money until the patent gets published revealing the flaw. He can claim “patent pending” the whole time without having to publish.

The guy is behaving exactly as a con man would, and not at all like a scientist or researcher would.

12 04 2011
Tyler

Again, I’ve been reading a lot about this, so I can’t quote exactly where I read it. However, what I’ve read is that the US patent office won’t grant any patents having to do with cold fusion (possibly due to the huge number of bogus applications.) Rossi claimed that he will only release the secret ingredients when the patent is granted, which is possibly never since it uses cold fusion. Blaming the patent office ;)

Besides, let’s assume that the secret is released and the patent is never granted. This would be an amazing invention and everyone would want to build. His name would still be attached to the invention, I’m sure some company would want to hire him. Reputation is pretty important in the scientific community. Besides, if he worked with some physicist to explain how it works, it’s possible he could get a Nobel Prize. In other words, if this is real, he is guaranteed to be rich no matter what.

13 04 2011
Don Cox

“the US patent office won’t grant any patents having to do with cold fusion ”

But this device would be patented by the Italian patent office. Do they have the same policy?

13 04 2011
Tyler

Rossi moved to Massachusetts, and his main corporation is in Florida, so I imagine he’s trying to get a US patent. But the other patent he has in regards to this was issued by WIPO.

14 04 2011
Anonymous
14 04 2011
Mirco Romanato

Rossi have already an agreement with a large startup that is building a factory intent to produce the e-cat in Greece. He will be paid when he will deliver a working 1 MW termic generator (built by 300 3KW e-cats reactors) that will be used to power the factory.
Currently he is declining offers of investments or collaborations until October/November, when the plant will be demostrated and working with the satisfaction of the Defkalion Green Technology (not to be confounded with Defkalion Energy).
We said they will start the plant and publicize their theory about how it work (Focardi research).
They built the plant in Greece where Focardi know a Physic professor with political connections (Stemmenos) that worked at the Bologna University.

I watched the first demostration videos in january and some photos of the demostration in march. The device was placed on a wooded base, so it could be moved around the table. No hidded wires or tube. The swedish professor, in their report stated the weight of the device, so they were able to weight it in some way (lifting it, I suppose). The only thing they was not allowed to inspect is the inside of the reaction chamber. From a photo, I think they assisted the putting on or the taking off of the insulation/shielding of the reactor used. From the description of the demostration, I think they were able to check that quantity of water poured inside so they knew how much volume was the device internally.

Rossi is witholding the theory and the patent details until October because he say that the patent is not enough to replicate the working device, but with the theory it is easy to replicate the development.
He said he signed few days ago a contract with an unnamed partner in the US that will build the device there (probably the agreement will be know after the Defkalion plant is showed up and working).

In October we will know. It is only six months. But I think there will be more from now to then.

20 04 2011
Ryan Brown

The issue with these claims is that they should be very easy to prove. Put in Nickel and Hydrogen, get copper out (or whatever the end resulting stable element is). If you aren’t getting something that isn’t Nickel out, then you aren’t getting fusion. Easy proof. Shouldn’t be a big deal until someone can prove they’re making a new element. Once they can, cut them a check, give them their private island, and let’s get on with the energy revolution.

22 04 2011
yonemoto

by “they should do a control experiment” I mean “they should do a sneaky control experiment”, i.e. let focardi and rossi set it up and fill the bastard with deuterium instead of hydrogen. Presumably focardi and rossi are keeping the internals secret, so the only thing the tester has control over is the input.

22 05 2011
Joe P

You know, 90% of me says this is a con.

But the 10% that is leftover thinks that this is exactly how I would handle a real breakthrough in cold fusion and related disciplines. Assuming it works, nobody will believe you completely and you can forget about being treated fairly in peer-reviewed journals. Nobody wants to be the next Fleischmann–Pons. Build a few real powerplants. Eventually you have a critical mass of operational units providing cheap power. The press and the scientific establishment will fall over themselves as they backpedal vigorously.

27 07 2011
Ryan Hopkins

I may be leaving out something obvious here, but – let’s just assume they’ve actually got something here – that catalyst really can’t be all that much of a secret. From a materials perspective, here are my guesses. They’re nearly all platinum group metals.

Rh – Rhodium, heated up to its melting point of 1966*C, absorbs oxygen but does not oxidize – as it solidifies it releases the oxygen. (More than twice the stated operating temperature of the Rossi reactor so unlikely, but perhaps in combination with others on this list?)

Pd – Palladium metal diffuses hydrogen thru itself – a useful way of assisting in making chemically pure hydrogen. (If you’re aiming for maximum effective surface area, this seems like a good alloying element

Pt – Platinum can catalyse oxygen and hydrogen instantly.

FeTi – Iron-Titanium alloy used to store hydrogen.

MgNi – Magnesium-Nickel alloy used to store hydrogen.

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